Wayne E. Hoffman
Era: World War II
Military Branch: Navy
Wayne E. Hoffman served in World War II in the U.S. Naval Reserve from November 1937 until June 1941 on the USS Paducah. He was recalled to service duty in 1943.
His rank was Seaman 1st Class. He attended Gunner’s Mate school and then was assigned to the LST 244 in the Pacific. He participated in the invasions of Guam and Okinawa. He was discharged in 1945.
Mr. Hoffman was awarded the Philippine Liberation Medal, Asiatic-Pacific Medal with two bronze battle stars, American Defense Service Medal, Navy Good Conduct Medal, and the Naval Reserve Medal.
Mr. Hoffman was born on November 10, 1919, in Proctor, Minnesota, the son of Carl and Emma Hoffman.
Source: Veterans’ Memorial Hall Veteran History Form
Note: The Veterans' Memorial Hall Program Story Coordinator will post an interview given by Mr. Hoffman in the very near future. We are presently waiting for the transcriptionist to transcribe the story given by Mr. Hoffman.
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Interview with Wayne Hoffman
Veterans’ Memorial Hall Oral History Program
March 12, 2016
Veterans’ Memorial Hall is a program of the St. Louis County Historical Society.
© March 12, 2016 by the St. Louis County Historical Society
All rights reserved. No part of this work may be reproduced or transmitted by any means, electronic or mechanical, including photocopy and recording or by any information storage and retrieval system, without permission in writing from the St. Louis County Historical Society.
Veterans’ Memorial Hall Oral History Program
Interview with Wayne Hoffman
Duluth, Minnesota
March 12, 2016
Carl Huber, Interviewer
Carl Huber: CH
Wayne Hoffman: WH
Michael Hoffman, son: MH
Track 1
00:00
CH: I’m here today with Wayne Hoffman, at the Alta Vista, here in Minnesota. This is Carl Huber, the interviewer. Wayne, start off where you were born.
WH: In Proctor, Minnesota.
CH: Proctor, okay.
WH: November 10, 1919.
CH: Okay. Can you tell us a little bit about your family, Wayne?
WH: My mother and father. My father was from Superior, Wisconsin. My mother was from Dorchester, Wisconsin. My sister was born in Superior.
CH: So there was the two of you? You and your sister?
WH: Just the two of us.
CH: I know you’re married and have children.
WH: I have three children, Sandra, Michael and Gretchen. They are living in the immediate area, all three of them. I’m very fortunate in that respect.
CH: Do you have grandchildren too, Wayne?
WH: Many of them. [both laugh] I have all kinds of them.
CH: Awesome.
WH: Sandy has six, Michael had three and Gretchen didn’t have any.
CH: Michael, his son, is here with us today too, so we’ll just add that to the record. Were you married in Duluth?
WH: In Proctor, Immanuel Lutheran Church, in 1941.
CH: How old are you, Wayne?
WH: Ninety-six.
CH: Wow, ninety-six. You look great. [both laugh] So let’s talk a little bit about going into the service. Tell us about what you were doing when you went into the service.
WH: I was working on the railroad, the DM&IR, [Duluth Missabe & Iron Range Railway] as a conductor. I had been in the Naval Reserve in high school.
CH: Were you drafted?
WH: No, I tried the Naval Reserve when I was a senior in high school. I served four years in the Naval Reserve on the USS Paducah.
CH: What type of ship was that?
WH: It was a World War I ship, gunboat I guess. Captain Rabideaux— and somewhere the ship was called to duty and they left with the crew for the east coast, for duty of some kind. However, I was not aboard because I had taken a leave and was in the CC camp in Gooseberry Park? Then I was more or less drafted into the regular Navy.
CH: What year was that then? Can you remember?
WH: Let’s see, I think it was in 1943.
CH: So did you get your training as a Reservist then?
WH: I got my training during the period from my previous high school graduation. We had a cruise and we met once a week for four years for a regular “hitch” we called it.
CH: Where would you meet? Would that be local?
WH: In Duluth down in Park Point, and also the Duluth Armory. That’s where the ship was.
CH: There was a Navy ship down there?
WH: Yes, the USS Paducah.
CH: What types of training?
WH: If we work aboard ship, which was not too often, we were at the Armory doing drills. I think it was Monday, but I’m not sure of the dates.
CH: Then once a year you were saying?
WH: We would take a cruise on the Great Lakes. In fact, there were five ships in this little squadron. One was a sister ship to the Paducah and then there was a couple of yachts that weren’t really warships where the Paducah had been. I can’t think of the other one. They did serve us during World War I.
CH: Oh, Okay. So what were those trips like?
WH: Lake Superior on the Great Lakes, all of them. One that I can remember very vividly was when we went to Cleveland, down in that area. I don’t even know what lake it is.
MH: Lake Erie.
CH: In those trips, how big was the crew, Wayne?
WH: Well, I don’t really know that. I’d say there must have been fifty.
CH: Are any of those men still alive?
WH: Yes, my buddy from Gary. What’s his name Mike?
MH: Balach.
WH: He’s still alive and there are probably others up to this year. I know there was a reunion. It used to be at that tavern down there on Grand Avenue. Can’t think of the name, they had their regular meetings there. It was a closely knit group.
CH: You stayed together after the war?
WH: Yes, there were a lot of Duluth boys and if I take a quick guess, there must have been at least ten or twelve from Proctor that were in the Reserves and were aboard the Paducah.
CH: Sure, and you were working as a conductor on the railroad from July 1940, during the Reservist period, after high school?
WH: No, I was in the CC camp after high school because I had started at UMD [University of MN-Duluth]. There was no money, so I had to quit school and I went to the CC camp at Gooseberry Falls. That’s where I was when I was called to go to work on the railroad. My father—they were preparing for a war at that time, and they were hiring new people on the railroad. Up until that point the railroad wasn’t doing that much. That’s when I went to Gooseberry. I worked one year in Gary, Indiana in the winter time because the DM&IR Railway shut down, practically, in the winter. They needed brakemen on the railroads. The war was going to start. I worked at Gary, Indiana the first year and the second year I think we were—anyway, I worked about two years during the war on the railroads and then was drafted from the railroad back into the service.
CH: It was 1941of course when Pearl Harbor— and then you said earlier it was 1943 when you went back in the service.
WH: I think it was forty-three, yeah.
CH: Can you tell me a little bit about what your experiences were, where you were and —.
MH: He went to the Great Lakes Gunners Mate School. After that he will have to tell you what went on, I wasn’t born yet. [all laugh]
CH: Mike had mentioned to me that you were a gunner’s mate.
WH: Yes, I went to school at Great Lakes and from there I went to Detroit to advanced gunner school and from Detroit we went back to Chicago to the Navy Pier. I was there for a short period and then shipped from there to get my induction back. No, the induction came before I went back to the Navy Pier and from there I was called.
CH: Can you tell me a little bit more about what is gunner school and what you learned there?
WH: In gunner school you learned to—what I will say, repair, and operate in the dark. You learn all of the fine little pieces of a firearm from a hand rifle, to a pistol to cannon. It was a very fine school.
CH: Sure, sure.
WH: I was in Detroit for the advanced gunnery school and it was a very, very fine school. It was in one of the other automobile factories, I think Ford, and I’m not sure. That’s where we were.
CH: So then with that designation, you then reconnected?
WH: When we finished school, they took us out and assigned us to a ship. Mine happened to be in the Pacific.
CH: Oh it was? And this was different than the Paducah.
WH: Oh, yes, it was out of service, we were advanced then.
CH: I see. What was the name of the ship you were on then?
WH: It’s 244, LST [landing ship tank] the South Pacific. They didn’t have names.
CH: They were just numbered, I didn’t realize that.
WH: We had landing tanks, eight aboard ship.
CH: They open at the front and the cargo?
WH: We had tanks.
CH: How many tanks would that hold?
WH: Oh, I’d guess about eight, ten, or twelve. There were approximately 400 feet long, not sure exactly.
MH: A mini-laker.
WH: The front opened and the door flopped down and the tanks drove off into the water or up aboard ship on shore.
CH: I was curious about that because you would have to bring those in pretty close to the beaches or where you were unloading.
WH: Yes, and you know during the war they had floats that attached to the tanks so that they could run the tanks, it floated in other words.
CH: Sure. So, 244 was in the Pacific?
WH: Yes, South Pacific.
CH: Did you serve in a couple Pacific battles?
WH: Yes.
Track 1
20:00
CH: Was that in Guam?
WH: I was in Guam and I was at?
MH: Okinawa was his other place.
WH: Okinawa battles.
CH: I did a little research. There was Guam, and two initiatives, ʾ41 and ʾ44. So you were probably the second Guam. Also at Okinawa, do you remember things about those days that you would like to share?
WH: No, it’s just a bad time.
CH: I understand. Sure. After that, you came back?
WH: We came back; the ship came back to San Diego on the 9th of August. That was—we knew the war was over. The atomic bomb had been dropped. We left _________? in the Pacific. I’m trying to figure out where it was. Coming home we had been called home for repairs and we were thirty days coming from where we were. We broke down just about every day. The LST [landing tank ship] was different in regards to other ships. These vessels were driven by diesel engines same as on the locomotives today. We had two of them and that was the power and they broke down. We were just floating until they got it fixed. It took us thirty days from Okinawa back to San Diego. They put her in dry dock and were going to repair it when the war was declared over with.
CH: That was in ʾ45?
WH: Yeah. I think we got home on the 9th day of August; I’m not positive what day they declared the war over with. It was _________? we were just about home.
CH: With the atomic bomb, pretty much Japan—
WH: Yes, we didn’t even stop, you could see the outline and we just kept on coming home.
CH: Do you remember where you were the day you heard the war was over?
WH: I think I was probably in San Diego.
CH: I’m sure it was a very joyous time.
WH: Yes, it was a riotous city. They had a huge hospital there.
CH: What happened after the war?
WH: I was sent to Minneapolis and discharged out and it was very close to my birthday. Then I came home.
CH: What about the friendships?
WH: Oh, yes, very good. This is quite a coincidence. When I was in CC camp, we got a group of men that lived in Minneapolis, St Paul area assigned to the CC Camp. I became good friends with some of them, and one of them was named Fred Ugola? A couple of years later, I was in Guam and I was walking down the road going to chow and I saw this little fart in front of me with this walk. I recognized his outline, because he was a little fellow and hardnosed. I hollered, “Fred”, and he turned around and it was the guy I was in the CC camp with in Minneapolis.
CH: Wow!
WH: He was a mess chief, a mess cook up at the airport. There was the sign there. That was a surprise of my life.
CH: Yeah. How was the food?
WH: It was as good as it is. [both laugh]
CH: My father-in-law was on the USS Laffey. It was one of the ships that couldn’t be sunk. It was hit the most but it didn’t sink. He was a radio man. His name was Donald Carter and he served on the USS L-a-f-f-e-y [spelled out]. That was a very different ship. It sounds like you were taking equipment onto the beach and so forth. I see on the TV ads there are things that you participated in?
WH: There’s what’s his name, the guy with all the stripes. Mike, what’s his name?
MH: Lyle.
MH: This is the DVD of the first honor flight. They went on it together, he’s never watched it.
CH: Oh. When did you do an honor flight, Wayne?
WH: I can’t remember, it was the very first one.
CH: Can you tell me about it? I’m curious.
WH: I’ve never seen this either. I didn’t know it was a movie.
MH: May 14, 2011.
WH: I’ll have to sit and watch that.
CH: Did that come out of Duluth?
MH: Yes, it was the first one that Duluth sponsored. I went along as an escort and took a couple other guys that I watched. I didn’t have to watch him. [both laugh]
CH: Can you tell me a little bit more about that, Mike?
MH: We flew from Duluth to Washington, DC. When you get there, there are people to meet you, a big crowd greeting the veterans. We took a bus over and the first place we went was to Arlington Cemetery. We had the fire trucks with the water spray and it was great. They were really treated well. What really did surprise me when we got to the World War II Memorial, there was former Senator Bob Dole sitting outside there on a stool greeting the veterans for five, ten minutes. Then he got too tired and had to go sit down. Then he comes back greeting these people. He had absolutely nothing to gain by that. He was all done with public office, he was just there.
CH: He was elderly then?
MH: Oh, yeah.
WH: There was someone else there too, wasn’t there Mike?
MH: A couple admirals, there was all kinds of people.
CH: How many went on the honor flight?
MH: Well, the plane was full.
WH: I was going to say, the plane was a big airplane. I don’t know how many.
CH: It was all World War II?
WH: Yes, that was a marvelous trip and when we landed at—now it’s gone.
CH: Washington, DC.
WH: Yes, there were thousands of people at the airport to welcome this flight. It was just crazy to me, because after a number of years it kind of wears off, but people will put themselves out to be there to welcome us. It was very heartwarming.
CH: How would you say this whole military experience affected you in your life, Wayne? Do you have anything to share there?
WH: Not really. I wasn’t happy to go by any means, I don’t think anybody was, however, you just—if it happens you have do what is right. I’m sure there were very, very few men that looked forward to it. It was something you had to do for America and that was it.
CH: Yeah. It was a totally different economic time too in terms of coming out of the Depression and returning home.
WH: Right, right.
CH: Did you go back to school? What did you do then?
WH: No, I went back on the railroad; my job was there for me. I got married the next year. [both laugh]
CH: What is your wife’s name?
WH: Doris. She’s gone now.
CH: Sorry.
WH: I don’t feel bad about having to go, it’s just something you do. Your country needs you, so you go.
MH: My mother (and his wife, of course), and her parents all worked at the Boeing plant in Seattle, during the war.
WH: Made airplanes, the B-29’s. I forgot that Mike.
CH: Wow. That was very common then, the women that worked in the factories.
WH: Well, most of these husbands were shoemakers here in Duluth and in Proctor. They went to Seattle and got jobs. They lived there and my wife was there with them. She lived in Proctor with my parents for a while, and then went to Seattle to work. The five of them worked and lived together.
CH: So did they come back after the war?
WH: Oh yes.
CH: Had you met your wife before then?
WH: Oh, yes. I met her when I was ten years old. [both laugh]
CH: So was she from Proctor too?
WH: Oh, yes. The brother and sister went first. Uncle Al and his wife, auntie Hulda, they went first. As I said, they were shoemakers here and weren’t doing anything. Evidently they felt they would be contributing to the war effort. They went first and got situated, got jobs at Boeing. Then my father and mother followed behind them. Then my wife took Sandy and went to work there.
CH: Where did you all reunite when you got to San Diego? Was your wife still in Seattle?
WH: Oh, yes. I was discharged and my wife must have been in Proctor and then came to Minneapolis. That’s where we reunited.
CH: Did you move back to Proctor?
WH: Yes, and I went back to the railroad.
CH: What was life like after the war? The railroad was moving a lot of cargo.
WH: Yes, I stayed there until I retired, in 1980. Help me Mike.
MH: I can’t remember, but you got your money’s worth. [all laugh] It was the 1980s when he turned sixty.
CH: Do you continue to stay in touch with your buddies?
MH: Yes, I joined the Legion and the Honor Guard after I got situated. Now this is where I am at.
CH: Very nice. Mike. Do you have anything that I’m missing or you want to add?
WH: I think I’ve unloaded all my worth.
MH: He kind of doesn’t talk about this, so I did learn some things. He did influence me because I joined the Naval Reserve while a junior in high school. After my active duty I stayed in the Reserve for a while and then went into the National Guard for thirty years. The influence came from him, like which one do you go to.
CH: I appreciate both of you guys’ service. I appreciate you sharing what you did, Wayne. This project is so important to have this history recorded.
WH: Yes, they are still talking, in fact, it was just the other day there was a group of men talking about a proposal for a veterans hospital.
MH: They are past the hospital, they’re going in the ground you mean. [all laugh]
WH: Yes, a cemetery, they are supposed to break ground this fall, out there by Pike Lake somewhere.
CH: Mike, I’m curious, you said you learned from your dad. What do you think was instilled when you saw what your dad went through?
MH: It’s hard to say, I know that it was a different time completely. Everybody was involved. Now nobody seems to give a damn unless you’ve got somebody that’s getting shot at. Those people don’t care, and I think that has to change or we’ve got big problems.
CH: Yeah. I agree.
MH: We don’t want to get into politics.
CH: No, no. What years did you serve?
MH: Active duty from ʾ65 to ʾ67 but I was an East Coast sailor, so I didn’t have to go to Vietnam. I was fortunate. I changed gun barrels on the destroyers, that’s what I did.
CH: Is that gunner mate similar to your dad?
MH: No, it was a fire controlman. But it’s close.
CH: I got my charts mixed up. [all laughing] I first got interested in this because I actually opened a veteran and nontraditional student center over in the University of WI-Superior. I’ve also gotten very involved with the 23rd Veteran. Not sure if you are familiar with that organization. They’re trying to reach out through exercise and socialization to exactly what you were talking about, Mike. These are men and women who are coming back now and they isolate. I’m just going to put it out there.
WH: They have many new problems.
MH: You know, they say that, but I think they recognize the problems now. You can’t convince me that these people that came out of World War II didn’t have PTSD. But they went to the VFW, the Moose or the Legion and got their medicine there. Now they are trying to take care of these people and that’s a good thing.
CH: You guys stayed together.
WH: Yes. You know Donny died and he was aboard the Paducah. I was talking that he was a sailor there and unmarried. He went early to World War II and he was a boiler maker, first class. He was on the USS Missouri. He came back and moved up to Virginia and by the way, he was another brakeman, my best buddy. We visited back and forth for a few years and he died from this asbestos. That’s from when he spent four years in the boiler room and he never told a damn one of us that he had it.
CH: So he was exposed to it.
WH: In those days everything was asbestos, they wrapped all the pipes in it, especially aboard the ships. They are still going through it today.
CH: So in the boiler rooms especially they had high exposure to that. Terrible. What rank did you come out of when you were enlisted?
WH: First Class Seaman.
CH: Mike, you were enlisted too, right? And you retired at?
MH: I was Command Sergeant Major, Second Class Fire Control, and Petty Officer.
CH: So I have to get my chart, the gunners and all that. [all laugh] I find all this very fascinating, so I really appreciate you guys sharing your stories, awesome. Is there anything else, words of wisdom? There’s a lot of it in here.
WH: No, I don’t think so.
MH: I’m just glad you got him talking a little. It’s fun to meet somebody that’s been there and shared your experiences. Sometimes it’s hard to believe that some people do. It’s just something you have to do for your country.
CH: I have two dogs. [pointing to Wayne’s dog]
WH: This is a tea cup. She weighs five pounds. She was a show dog. She had no vocal chords.
CH: I wished mine didn’t. Do they remove them for show dogs?
WH: Yes. I was unaware of that until I got her, I didn’t get her when she was a puppy. I had her about five years. I supposed they removed the vocal chords when they are doing their thing.
CH: Ours yaps at everything, even me. I sometimes think it’s blind.
WH: Well get a dachshund and you will see what barking is. She’s the belle of the ball. I take her for a walk and these ladies stop, come up to my door and come in. They want to hold her.
CH: I really appreciate your time; I could sit here all day and listen.
WH: I’m sure we enjoyed very, very much having you.
CH: Thank you. I’m more than willing, this is so important, Mike, if you know of other guys.
MH: You know I was thinking that.
WH: We have many veterans here.
CH: Do you, from World War II?
WH: Yes. I don’t think we have any newer ones, I think they are all World War II.
CH: Do you guys get together here?
WH: No, they don’t, they are kind of independent. But if you walk the hallway you’ll see little flags.
MH: He is the last World War II veteran that’s active in the Honor Guard. We have one other that’s at Keystone, but he doesn’t come out any more. He was in the Army.
CH: Just for this year Mike, what do you do in the Honor Guard?
MH: The main focus is to give final honors to the deceased veteran, but they also have people go out to the schools. We have a lot of schools now that ask for us to come out. They post colors for us at some of these little conventions and things you know.
CH: And Wayne, you’re still doing that?
WH: Yes, I’m nearing ninety-six and I’m getting near the end of the line. [all laugh]
CH: You look pretty spry to me. [all laugh]
WH: I actually feel pretty good; I had a rather rough spell this winter, arthritis acting up. But I’ll get out some more.
CH: Today it’s really nice. We had our first campfire last night with our fire pit. Then we found some sparklers, so it was fun with our girls.
WH: You live right here in Duluth?
CH: Yeah, we’re right down here in Congdon Park area. We moved up here about thirteen years ago, so we are not from the area.
WH: Have you been with the Depot ever since? [Note: Veterans’ Memorial Hall is a program of the St. Louis County Historical Society, located in the Duluth Depot]
CH: No, I just started on this project, probably the last six months. I heard about it and I’m very interested in veteran’s stories and getting theme recorded. They just kind of call me and I reach out to the veterans. It’s a specific project and they have some money to do this. We are trying to get as many veterans as we can from all generations to talk.
WH: We don’t talk much, and you don’t need to record this.
CH: Now I am just curious about this when you were called to the 244.
WH: I was born in 1919. I was twenty-four or twenty-five, somewhere in there.
CH: Do you remember being older than the other guys?
WH: No, I knew some of them were younger. You didn’t think about age, they were doing the same thing you were.
MH: They didn’t call you grandpa or anything? [all laugh]
WH: I had some pictures of the gang, but I don’t know where the hell they are.
CH: Well, I appreciate this, any last thoughts?
WH: No, no. This has been very enjoyable, and not recalling [mentioning] certain other things. I think it’s a good project to get it out.
CH: Good, I appreciate that and taking the time to bring back some of those—
WH: I have nothing to do here. [all laugh]
CH: We are going to wrap it up then.
WH: Okay.
End of transcript
Track 1
48:00
Transcribed by Helen Hase
