David Horowitz
Era: World War II
Military Branch: Army
HOROWITZ, David
David Horowitz was born on February 8th 1924 to Harry & Sarah [Gordon] Horowitz in Detroit, Michigan.
When WWII started Mr. Horowitz thought to enlist in the Air Force. He then tried joinng to the Navy Seabee’s. Ultimately he was inducted in the U.S. Army on February 4th 1943 at Ft. Sherman, Illinois. In December of ’43 he was stationed in Iceland for most of the war.
He rose to the rank of Private First Class (PFC). He was honorably discharged on February 4th 1946. He shipped home from England on the HMS Queen Elizabeth.
After the war he married to Rosalind B. [Kaufman] on September 24th 1950 and they had kids in 1952. He felt he was lucky they didn’t send him to the Korean War.
He then married Annette on June 5th 1977 and they live in Duluth, Minnesota.
Source(s)
Albert J. Amatuzio Research Center | Veterans Memorial Hall (vets-hall.org)
Page 1 WWII Draft Registration Cards - Fold3
Michigan, U.S., Marriage Records, 1867-1952 - Ancestry.com
Veterans Memorial Hall Oral History Program
Interview with David Horowitz
July 17, 2021
Interviewer: Carl Huber
CH: Carl Huber
DH: David Horowitz
AH: Annette Horowitz
Track 1
00:00
CH: This interview is conducted with David Horowitz for the Veteran’s Memorial Oral History Program. It is recorded on Saturday, July 17, 2021 at David Horowitz home at 4004 London Road in Duluth, Minnesota. My name is Carl Huber. So, David, can you tell me about your background, as far as where you grew up. Way back when…
DH: Well, I grew up in Detroit, Michigan and I went to Central High. I graduated from high school in ’42. Then the war just started and I went and tried to enlist in the Air Force. They gave me some tests, but some of the tests I never knew because…I missed about six or seven points. I missed it. So then, I was thinking about going to the Navy Seabee’s.
CH: Sure.
DH: Well, I had a couple of cousins that was in the Army and they said to wait till you get drafted. Then I had an operation, an appendix operation and that deferred me for a month or two months or three months, whatever it was. Then I got into the Army and I was at Fort Custer, Michigan which is 120 miles from Detroit.
CH: David, do you have any siblings? Are you from a big family?
DH: I have a brother and three sisters.
CH: Are any of them military?
DH: No, no.
CH: Just you.
DH: One of my sisters married Leo Sherman and he was in the Army for almost three or four years and he never went overseas. He never left. He was a Sergeant in Texas someplace. So then…I was with this girl and she had a cousin from St. Louis and he was a Captain in the military force at Fort Custer and the first day I got there he came to visit me. Then I never saw him anymore.
CH: Oh…
DH: Then I had my basic training at Fort Custer for 13 weeks or 14 weeks, something like that.
CH: That’s outside Kalamazoo, Michigan right?
DH: Yeah, Battle Creek.
CH: Okay.
DH: Then from they sent me to Mississippi Southern College in Hattiesburg, Mississippi for two months.
CH: What was that for?
DH: Well, when I came out of high school, I went to work for General Motors in the office as a clerk and typist. So they sent me to Mississippi Southern College in Hattiesburg. I was there for just two months and then I went to Indiantown Gap, Pennsylvania, a staging area to go overseas.
CH: Okay.
DH: Then from there I went to New Jersey on a ship and went across on the Queen Mary.
CH: How long did that take? Do you remember that experience, being on that ship?
DH: Oh I remember that because we had a storm. We left just before Christmas.
CH: And you left out of New Jersey for…?
DH: For Scotland.
CH: On the Queen Mary?
DH: And we had 17,000 troops on the ship and the Queen Mary always went by itself. There was a big storm. I lost about 10 pounds on that ship.
CH: Did you?
DH: In the five days.
CH: It was five days…?
DH: It took us five days and you get off the ship and they put us in another ship and the next ship I saw it said Empress of Russia. And I said, “oh my God, I’m going to go to Russia,” but I didn’t. We had an English Destroyer, two of them escort us to Iceland.
CH: Okay.
DH: When I got to Iceland…
CH: Now David, how many of those troops…were all 17,000 headed for Iceland?
DH: No, no. No, they went to England.
CH: Okay.
DH: I don’t even know what happened to them.
CH: Sure.
DH: Then from Iceland they send me to a camp outside of Reykjavik and they put me into the office and I had an argument with the Sergeant there. I was up from corporal training and I had an argument with him. I got a big mouth.
CH: LAUGHTER
DH: So we had a hut there, a Quonset hut.
CH: So what’s a Quonset hut? Can you describe it?
DH: We lived in a Quonset hut, eight of us. So when they started to take some of the troops out of Iceland, to send them to Europe, they divided it up. Four went to Europe, to England and the Battle of the Bulge and four stood. I was of the four that stood. I was very lucky. It was just the flip of the coin, I guess. Then they moved us…they closed the camp up in Iceland and moved us into Reykjavik.
CH: Okay.
DH: To another place. So, then they put me in charge of a generator.
CH: So in Reykjavik…
DH: In Reykjavik I was with a generator and everything.
CH: So the generator, is that a position? Because then you were in operations?
DH: I was operating the generator to make sure we got power and everything.
CH: Okay.
DH: And we had to…I’ll never forget. A ship was torpedoed and it had all the beer. So when we go the next beer, there were 14 cases of beer brought in for our place. I’m not a beer drinker.
CH: Okay.
DH: If I drink one bottle, I’m lucky. There was one guy from Canton, Ohio and he tried to clean up all the beer. I’ll never forget because I had my bed right next to the pot stove, it was nice and warm and he took a cold bottle of beer and threw it on top. I wanted to kill him. We called him Peaches, he was 6’4” or 6’5”. Then I was there and we had a Naval Base there.
CH: In Reykjavik?
DH: Oh yeah, a Naval Base outside of Reykjavik. Iceland was a very important island.
CH: Well, that’s because they were neutral right?
DH: Well, you have Iceland here, you have England here and you had all the ships going to Russia. In fact a huge Destroyer was torpedoed in front of Iceland there.
CH: Oh, wow.
DH: The Marines came and let the English to out and the Marines came in and then two or three months later the war was declared.
CH: Because Britain…King Christian…Iceland was ruled by a monarchy?
DH: Iceland was from Denmark.
CH: From Denmark…
DH: And then England took over because Germany was going to go in there.
CH: Okay.
DH: It was a big thing for Germany to get in there, but England beat them first.
CH: Got it. When you were there, the US occupied Iceland, right?
DH: Yes.
CH: So with the hospital running generators, were troops taken that were injured into Reykjavik, or the area you were in?
DH: Reykjavik is the capital of Iceland.
CH: Yeah…
DH: I was stationed outside of Reykjavik but I was taken care of the Red Cross.
CH: I got ya.
DH: The generator and everything, I was there eight hours off and 24 hours on.
CH: Wow.
DH: And we had Marlene Dietrich come into camp. She was right there. Then from Iceland I went to England for about 10 days to catch another ship to go back home. I came home on the Queen Elizabeth.
CH: The Queen Elizabeth?
DH: Oh, I was high class. You would get a service bar for each 6 months on an overseas tour, and I had three of them. When I can home, they sent me to Fort Oglethorpe in Georgia.
I was two points…let’s see. I had…every bar was six months overseas and I had three of them. I came in September, October, November. I was about three or four months of being overseas for a year to get four points. When I came home, they sent me to Georgia, in a wet van.
CH: Oh, now what’s that?
DH: All women there, it was a wet van outside of Chattanooga, Tennessee. I was there September to when I got discharged. And let me tell you something, don’t ask me what I did there. I didn’t do a damn thing there. All I did was drink and that was it…and smoke. And I made up my mind. I got drunk on Christmas…I had a furlough to go home on Christmas, but Christmas to me is nothing because I’m Jewish. So my buddy, I said take my furlough. He says thank you very much. Then I went to the Red Cross with a couple of buddies of mine and we bought a bottle and then we drank the whole thing straight and we went to the Red Cross dance and all that. Danny said come on Dave I just bought a bottle of mint gin and we drank that. Well, let me tell you something, we had 30 minutes, 30 miles from the camp on the bus and I got sick on the bus.
CH: Oh…
DH: I made up my mind I’ll never mix my drinks and I’ll never buy no cheap liquor. If I can’t drink the best, I will not drink anymore. I used to drink my whiskey straight. No ice or nothing.
CH: Oh wow.
DH: My dad came from Russia and in the old days, every day he used to take a shot of whiskey, straight. I learned that from him.
CH: Sure.
DH: Then after that when I got discharged in February, I didn’t do nothing until April or something.
CH: So you were discharged in February of ’46?
DH: February 4, 1946.
CH: So you came from England…?
DH: From Iceland I went to England for a week or 10 days and then from there we came across on the Queen Elizabeth.
CH: How was that boat ride?
DH: The Queen Elizabeth? It was beautiful. It was during the summertime…it was in August.
CH: Oh yeah?
DH: It was nice.
CH: Any memories or stories? Things that happened on the Queen Elizabeth?
DH: Nothing happened on the Queen Elizabeth. There were no stories. It was a nice trip. The sun was shining and everything. But it wasn’t like that going across on the Queen Mary.
CH: So you hit a storm on that one?
DH: Oh…a North Atlantic storm, one of the biggest ones they ever had. Everybody…we were on the U-deck all the way on the bottom. It took me a half hour to get up…to go up there. I would take a step and sit down. The guy next to me would get up and poop. Everybody was pooping. Not me, I lost about 10 pounds. All I ate was tea biscuits. They gave us an English breakfast. We had that the first time and everybody threw up. It was garbage. I didn’t eat nothing, just the tea biscuits for the whole trip.
CH: For the five days. So then you were out of the military in February of ‘46. So what was life then for you? You said you…did you go to work? What was next for you?
DH: I didn’t go to work and then I went to work with my father.
CH: Okay.
DH: He’d been in the produce business since 1915, something like that. He lived in New York for about two years and then he moved to Detroit. Before he was getting $5 a day. And then he went into business for himself when he got to Detroit.
CH: Sure.
DH: Then I started to work with him and in between that I drove out west before that. Before I started to work and we went to Nevada and then Florida and from Florida we came back home. Then I came to work.
CH: So you kind of took a little break.
DH: I took a break for about three months, two or three months.
CH: Yeah, when did Annette come into your life?
DH: I don’t want to remember.
CH: LAUGHTER
DH: So actually, you want my life history.
CH: I do.
DH: So then I met this girl, and I got engaged in ’48 or something. Then she broke off because she found somebody…a big shoe factory guy that had a lot of money and everything. Me, I was in business. Then I met this other girl in ’50 and six months later we got married. It was the worst mistake I made in 1950. Meanwhile, I was in business already with my father.
CH: What was your dad’s name David?
DH: Harry Uterschlat from Russia, but he changed the name at Ellis Island, so he changed it to Horowitz. He came in 1890 or 1891, something like that.
CH: Then you were married?
DH: I was married to the first one for about 25 years but she played around.
CH: Oh, I’m sorry.
DH: Then I had three daughters. One daughter disowned me. The other one got mad at me and the other one I sent to college and she is a doctor.
CH: Where is she at?
DH: In Detroit, West Bloomfield.
CH: Sure.
DH: And then my dad was in the Christmas tree business, wholesale Christmas trees with my uncle, his brother. He was traveling into Canada and we had our own plantations up in Canada. I used to travel to New Brunswick and Nova Scotia to load up trees. You heard of the Scott Paper Company?
CH: Yeah.
DH: We were partners with Scott Paper Company.
CH: Oh…
DH: In New Brunswick and we did a lot of business in Chicago. My dad knew people from the old days.
CH: Sure.
DH: We did a lot of business in Chicago and then I started to sell or change stores. I’ve learned a lot about Chicago. I had a partner in Chicago. We used to sell Christmas trees in Chicago by the railroad. We used to send trees to Chicago…
CH: Through the railroad.
DH: Chicago and Cleveland. One guy, we sold him 12 loads of trees and…don’t repeat this. We have a cousin that was with the mafia and in Cleveland they tried to screw us over with the trees. I made sure that every tree that went in there was good. And he tried to screw us. He says to my dad, Uncle Harry, I’ll get you the money. He was trouble. My dad was honest. My uncle was not. My dad was honest and he said I’ll straighten up with him, so we gave him a discount and everything.
CH: Sure.
DH: Otherwise we wouldn’t have gotten a thing and that was a big order…12 box cars.
CH: Oh wow.
DH: In fact, we had an article in the Detroit news that my dad was the largest wholesale Christmas tree dealer in Michigan. Then the articles came in and our business went down, down for the next two years. I said dad lets get rid of it. So we sold everything. We sold our plantations in Canada. We gave it to the guy that worked for us.
CH: So did you own the land in Canada?
DH: Yeah…the plantation yeah and we had a foreman there. So we gave them the land and everything because we didn’t need it. It was over 100 acres. Then I concentrate on watermelons, we got bigger and bigger on watermelons. We had a chain store farmer check over 100 stores and I was servicing them and then I had a partner after my dad retired. I had a partner in Chicago. He was on the ground floor and I learned a lot from him too. We started to get watermelons from Mexico. They were the best watermelons, from Mexico and Texas. I worked with a shipper out of Florida and he was a big shipper. I worked with him and chain stores…by the truckloads. Then I was by myself and it was just too much for me, but I had a good business. Then I got my divorce, after three years I made up my mind this was shit and I couldn’t take it anymore. So I got rid of my ex-wife and I was single for about four months and then my cousin…my nephew met this girl and this girl introduced me to this woman. Now this woman didn’t want to go out with me. The first time I saw her she was this big.
AH: I told him he was too old for me.
DH: She was this big and the first time I went to take her out she wouldn’t go out with me. I was worried about getting women. How old was I, I was 45 or 50 years old.
CH: Sure.
DH: You know a lot of women, at 45 and divorced. They want a man and I was in business for myself. I was making a nice comfortable living. Then I had to go to the hospital because I had bursitis. I had an operation. For two weeks I was in the hospital. I had two operations. I only took her out once to see a movie, I forgot the name of it. It was a snowy day. After that I started to call her on the phone and she was nice over the phone. So after two weeks she finally came to visit me. The first thing she did on the wall I had cards, that was the first thing she looked at. I’ll never forget that.
CH: Oh…
AH: I worked at this famous place, it was called the Raliegh House in Michigan. My bosses name was Sammy Lieberman and my other boss was Bronco Lucas and he was a mafia guy.
CH: Yeah?
AH: And Jimmy Hoffa was good friends with my boss. So he came to see him. So he came into my restaurant that I managed and he ordered a pastrami sandwich on white bread. So I took it away from him and put it on rye bread naturally.
CH: Right.
AH: I gave him the sandwich and he walked away and no one ever saw him since. One year I had the FBI at my house three times a week thinking I put him away.
CH: With a pastrami sandwich?
DH: And that restaurant…we had a place a mile away from that restaurant. I had a lot of friends…in fact one of the guys we were very close, his uncle was the head man of the mafia and we were supposed to go to Sicily but he got sick. I went to visit him in the hospital and he had cancer and everything. There was a priest in there and he says I want you to meet my father. He tried to convert me.
CH: LAUGHTER
DH: Oh yeah.
AH: He’s got some nice memories.
DH: I’ve got a good memory. In fact when I was nine years old, I had my head split open.
CH: No way.
DH: See, we lived in a two family flat. Two houses away was another…and the girl lived upstairs and the guy lived downstairs. His name was Ernie Nopay. And we was in the backyard and he threw an ax at her. Well she ducked and I was behind her and it hit me in the head.
CH: No…
DH: And I came home…it didn’t knock me out. I was just bleeding and my dad was home and he took me to the hospital. They strapped me up and he sat on top me and they stitched me up. The doctor said if it was higher or lower, I would have been dead.
CH: Really?
DH: I’ve got a good memory.
CH: Yeah.
DH: I got kicked in the head by a horse. Oh yeah…
CH: Going back to the operations manager for the generator. You were on for 24 hours. Do you have any memories of that?
DH: I was mostly a lot of times with the Red Cross there as long as the generator was working. And I was on the generator there and if something was wrong, I had to fix it. But everything was fine.
CH: Do you remember staying in touch with any of your colleagues? Former soldiers that you served with at the time? Because there was four there, right?
DH: Right, there was four of us in the room there.
CH: Did you have friendships there?
DH: I mean we played cards and this and that. In the Red Cross I met a girl there. Then all wanted to come to the United States.
CH: Sure. I read that about Iceland, that was a real problem in Iceland.
DH: Oh yeah.
CH: The Iceland men were very envious or angry towards the American men.
DH: Yeah, they don’t like us. They did not like the US soldiers at all, or the Navy either. They did not like the American troops there.
CH: It had to do with their women?
DH: The women wanted us.
CH: I’ve read a little of the history there.
DH: Her name was Lena Olsendaughter and I was going around with her for quite a while. Then when I told her I was leaving we could get married, but that was a bunch of bullshit. I could just picture myself…my folks were Orthodox and if I bring this girl home. My mother I could work her, but my father I couldn’t…
CH: Dad wouldn’t put up with it.
DH: No. My mother would have put up with her. I wouldn’t put up with her. The next day she was with somebody else, a guy from Chicago.
CH: So you were in business for yourself for?
DH: I was in business with my dad…let’s see when did I get discharged.
CH: In ’46.
DH: I was in business with my dad since ’46.
CH: And then you had your own company your whole life?
DH: Right, my own company.
CH: What age did you retire David?
DH: Well, I was semi-retired because my main business was in the summer time with the watermelons. I was out of the Christmas tree business already.
CH: Because the artificials came in?
DH: Yeah. I concentrated on the watermelons and then I met this shipper in Texas that he was in the pineapple business and the watermelon business. So I used to get pineapple, tree ripened pineapple and then I got semi-retired. Then I would go back in the summer time, in April I would start up again. Then I picked up a partner there and I was full-time. He would work the whole year, I would give him a month off and I would go to Florida. We had a good yield going too. We made a lot of money. Then he died on me.
CH: Was he in Chicago?
DH: No, Detroit. He was an Italian boy, one of the buyers, farmer Jack. Then he went on his own. He had two boys. One was okay and the other was a piece of shit. I walked in there, got there at 3:00 in the morning and he was trying to be the boss. He says you’re not the boss, get out.
CH: Sure.
DH: His father didn’t say a thing. I took his father in without any money at all. I gave him 25% of the business but he didn’t have no money at all. He was honest…SamPizzo. He was honest as the day was long. We made money.
CH: How long have you two been together?
DH: Too long, over 45 years. There is our wedding book, when was it?
AH: 1977.
CH: June 5, 1977.
DH: So how many years is that?
CH: 44 years.
AH: I have to show you something.
CH: Wow.
DH: That’s the one that introduced me, right there. I could kill her.
CH: That’s a beautiful dress Annette.
AH: Thank you. That’s my son Gary who lives here.
CH: Is he down on Canal Park?
AH: Yes. And that’s my mother.
CH: Look at you Dave, you look pretty dapper there.
AH: Look at all the hair.
DH: I weighed 157 pounds.
CH: That is beautiful.
AH: That is my mom and dad.
CH: Where were your parents from?
AH: Michigan.
CH: They are all Michigan?
DH: Yeah. Show him a picture of Bronco.
AH: Yeah, I am.
DH: He was in the mafia and him and I were like this there.
AH: There’s Bronco and that was his girlfriend, she was my best friend. That’s me and Dave, my mom and dad, Essie and Sam.
DH: Her mother and I used to go every Saturday afternoon for lunch, just the two of us.
CH: Just the two of you?
DH: In Detroit and I tell you the two of us got along. Her father and I, he was in the meat business. Him and I were good until she passed away. Then he married somebody else. That was it.
CH: Oh boy…what does Gary do?
AH: What’s Gary’s business?
DH: He’s in the computer business.
CH: And he is still working?
DH: Oh yeah. He has another two years until he retires. He is like a son to me.
CH: Pretty girls Dave.
AH: They don’t like him.
DH: They…let me tell you something. They have nothing to do with me.
AH: These are his three sisters.
CH: So you have three sisters?
DH: Yeah, only one sister was good, the youngest one. She passed away. The other two were no good at all.
CH: Well now, were you the only boy?
DH: I have a brother he is 77 years old. He didn’t like the business at all.
CH: No?
DH: No. I had one sister work for my father and she stole a lot of money from my dad.
AH: These are good friends of mine. I worked at this place.
CH: The musicians? They were your friends?
AH: They were my friends. I’ll tell you what I do. I work at this place called the Raliegh House. It was a famous catering facility, restaurant, bar and disco. So we cater all these parties.
DH: I would eat at the Raliegh House and I didn’t have to pay for it.
CH: Wow look at that.
AH: So they came in and ordered a pastrami sandwich. My boss was good friends with Jimmy Hoffa.
CH: Yeah?
AH: So he ordered a pastrami sandwich on white bread, so I took it away from him and put it on rye bread, naturally. I gave it to him, he walked away and no one’s every seen him since. I had the FBI at my house for a year.
CH: Oh my gosh…over a pastrami sandwich. That’s beautiful.
AH: Yeah. That was my mom.
CH: Oh…fun. Everybody having fun. That was a beautiful wedding.
AH: Life is too short not to.
CH: Yes, isn’t that the truth. Have fun.
DH: Yeah, so when Sam Pizzo died I took this other guy in. That was my mistake. And he stole a lot of money from me. Then I decided, I cut it off. Then I went partners with a friend of mine on the market there and we did very well.
AH: Do you know my son, Gary?
CH: You know, he kind of looks familiar. We’ve been in Duluth for about 19 years. We moved up here when my daughters were one and three.
DH: There is a picture of mother and dad when they first got married, in the middle. The little one, over there. When they got married in New York.
CH: This is your parents?
DH: Yeah, my parents.
CH: So Harry and?
DH: Sarah. They got married in 1910, I think it was.
CH: And was she already here?
DH: She just came. They came from the same village in Russia.
CH: No way.
AH: Small world aye?
CH: It is and how everybody came over. Yeah…
DH: Yeah, I had good looking parents.
AH: They were 30 some years old.
DH: They were 31 years old. So his mother…for three years when he was born, they wouldn’t tell me. Now the funny thing about it, he was born on July 12th. July 12th is the busiest time of my year for the 4th of July. I only lived about five or six mile away. So three years later she let us know in Florida that she had a son. Now him and I are like this here.
CH: Really.
DH: Now he’s in between. He’s between his father and me. We are very close.
CH: Where is he living now?
DH: In New York. He is a lawyer in New York.
CH: I wanted to ask you about that…tell me about that.
DH: I went on a flight…
CH: What year was that?
DH: That was six years ago. So anyways, he was going to Georgetown University and he met me there. They wouldn’t let him on the bus because you know…I said my grandson, that’s my grandson, so they said okay go ahead. So he was with us all day long. And then he left us at 4:30 when we were done. He went to the bar and he met this woman and that was it. Now he is getting married to the same woman. They’ve been together six years already.
CH: Really?
DH: Yeah, this honor flight was unbelievable.
CH: Tell me about it.
DH: Well, I was waiting for my guy to come. There was two guys sitting next to me. One was from…the war right after World War 2.
CH: From the Bong Center?
DH: The war right after the World War 2 thing in November or December. I sat there like this and I said I was in Iceland. So I talk to the guy there. He said look Mr. Horowitz, this is where they put you. You had no choice. And that’s it. I sat there feeling a bit better. So we went to the honor flight and traveled around. We saw the Vietnam memorial and oh my god. That was a terrible war.
CH: Oh yeah. So they took you to DC? The honor flight took you to Washington DC?
DH: To Washington DC yeah for one day.
CH: What did you fly on? Just a commercial flight?
DH: No a private flight. Then the kids were waiting for us…to congratulate us and everything. Then we traveled around Washington, saw all of that there. Then coming back into Florida there must have been 300 to 400 people waiting…giving us cards and congratulating us on our service. There was a Scottish band playing. It was something to see.
CH: Sure.
DH: It was something to see, believe me when I saw that.
CH: That’s right, I keep forgetting. You would have been in Florida. I keep thinking you were in Duluth. But you were living in Florida then.
DH: I was living in Florida.
CH: Because you have only been in Duluth for three years.
DH: No, I was in Florida.
CH: Did you have any contact with Veterans in Florida when you were down there?
DH: No, I had one Veteran in Florida and he is still there. He lost a leg and they want to cut his leg off. What the hell is his name…he served in the…the war after World War 2.
CH: The Korean War?
DH: The Korean War…yeah. They wanted to cut his leg off and he said you are not going to cut my leg off. He lives down in Florida and we keep in contact with him. He is suffering terrible right now.
CH: Is he?
DH: He got everything wrong with him. He collects money from the government. Who cares if you get money from the government if you are in pain. I don’t get no money and I’m not in pain thank god.
CH: Yeah, we need to take care of veterans. David, I also wanted to talk to you…you mentioned that part of your hearing was…
DH: When I was in Georgia, just before I got discharged, I had an infection. They gave me sulfur pills and it cured it a little bit, but I didn’t heal. I went to Detroit and I went to an ear doctor and he cleared it up a little bit. But ever since then I have had nothing but trouble with my ear.
CH: Just your…
DH: Just this ear. I had stuff dripping.
CH: But you got an appointment with the VA?
DH: I went to the VA and I had cataracts taken out in Florida. Then I moved here and they were going to send me to Indianapolis to the hospital but because of my age there was too much traveling back and forth so the VA paid for the hospital here.
CH: Nice.
DH: This was a bad one…this one was okay. This one was really bad.
CH: Big difference afterwards?
DH: Funny thing about it, I could see…I open up my eyes like this I could see good. If I don’t open them up, I don’t see too good. So I don’t fool around with it. Then I got the cheaters. With the cheaters I don’t have to spend $450 on glasses. So I got cheaters here.
CH: Yes, my dad had that with the eyes. His eyelids were too big so he had cosmetic surgery, they paid for it, because it was a medical condition. I tease him about having a facelift. Now his eyes are open big, but he had the same problem with having too much skin. So his eyes are open wider now.
DH: Well, when I open up like this here at the TV, I can see a little brighter. Otherwise, I can still see. But I can’t read without the cheaters. For $9 you can’t go wrong. The doctor told me to buy the cheaters.
CH: Yeah, save that money. My dad served in the Korean War. He was in at the end of it so he didn’t see…he wasn’t in combat or anything. He actually was a supply Sergeant in France. He has a photo album and all it is is pictures of him drinking wine in parks with different ladies. I’m like dad, this is kind of funny, you had it pretty good.
DH: I was lucky they didn’t put me in the Korean War but I was married already. I got married in 1950.
CH: 1950 for the first time and then again…
DH: I would have had one kid already in 1952. Otherwise I would have went to the Korean War.
CH: Then the Vietnam War.
DH: To me that war…they had no business being in there at all.
CH: I’ve been to that memorial too David.
DH: The memorial… the wall. I’m telling you. It was from here to the tree there. That’s how long it was.
CH: I get goosebumps just thinking about it. It’s such a horrific war…
DH: They lost 50,000 to 70,000 troops…
CH: Something in that range.
DH: What gets me is when they came back, people spit on them.
CH: I know.
DH: If that would have happened to me I think I would have hit ‘em. Then I would have been blamed.
CH: Yeah, it was terrible.
DH: It was terrible.
CH: Terrible how those men were treated and what they saw.
DH: Killing the kids and everything.
CH: My brother-in-law served in Vietnam. He was a really good shooter, a sharp shooter so he’s really struggled with it. He’s had some…I don’t think he bathed for 13 months and lived in the jungle.
DH: Now look what they are doing in Afghanistan, all the troops are coming home now. They had no business going in there in the first place…I’m a history buff. In 1890, the British had and they left. Then the Russians came in and they left after a couple of years then the United States came in. Now you know who is going to come in next, China.
CH: You think China will go in next?
DH: China will come in. Trust me…they got trouble with China right now. China wants to control the world.
CH: Yeah, that’s a complicated situation right now.
DH: It’s terrible.
CH: Yeah.
DH: You know who one of the best presidents we had was Truman.
CH: Truman?
DH: As far as I’m concerned, he was the best president we ever had.
CH: Yeah, he got us out of World War 2, right?
DH: Yeah, after Roosevelt died. He knew Stalin was no good. Right away he cut him off. They had a lot of spies and they were making the atomic bomb and they knew about it. Stalin knew about it too.
CH: Boy…
DH: In 1947 Stalin had the bomb already.
CH: That’s just terrible.
DH: Now Truman was the best president we had. There was no bullshit with him. The buck stops right here.
CH: That was on his desk, wasn’t it?
DH: That’s right. Then he fired MacArthur. MacArthur had been a good general. He was one of the best generals we had.
CH: That’s what I thought.
DH: When the war was over, Russia tried to come into Japan, like they did in Germany and he says you’re not coming into Japan at all. Get out and he kicked them out of there. They were bitching like hell because he wouldn’t let them in. He controlled Japan already and he wouldn’t let them in there.
CH: No.
DH: In Germany they did. Well, during the war, they wanted to go into Berlin, you want to know why? They stopped them. They came into the American part of Berlin and he killed a couple of Russians there. The Russians backed out then. The two generals won that war. Dwight and Patton. Patton was nobody’s fool.
CH: At the signing…I know Truman was President, was Patton the General in charge?
DH: Patton was gone already. A couple of months after the war.
CH: You have some great memories, David.
DH: I can remember a lot. I read a lot of history books.
CH: Do you?
DH: Yeah, I’ve always been a history buff. In fact, in high school I took English history.
CH: And so as far as education, you really never went on for anymore college or anything?
DH: No I didn’t go to college because my dad wasn’t feeling too well and in 1948, he had cancer, but he beat it.
CH: Oh, good for him.
DH: But he was sick so I went in there and I was a greenie, I didn’t know too much. But I had help from my uncle and cousins that were in the business and they helped me out.
CH: You shared a lot of great stuff, memories and stories. I really appreciate it.
DH: You know a funny thing. I had an uncle, my dad’s brother and my dad. My dad was easy going, honest and everything. Everybody respected him. My uncle was a Goniff (Yiddish word). You don’t know what a Goniff is. He was sharp boy. Let me tell you something. He was nobodies fool. I learned a lot from him. I used to go to Canada with him with the trees and I learned a lot from him and my father. I learned how to be honest and that’s the way I was doing the watermelon business. I knew when the market was going down, I knew when to buy and when not to buy. And I learned when it was going down and down…I kept buying and buying and they kept selling until we hit the bottom. I had a building all filled with watermelons from Mexico and I knew what was going to happen. Of course, it hit 10 cents a pound and it ain’t going to go any lower, it had to go up. It went up to 20 cents a pound and I had watermelons. I had one truck that came in late and that cost me 13 cents a pound delivery. I was getting 24 cents per pound. Well when you have some 40,000 pounds. I knew what was going to happen. I knew when to buy and when not to buy.
CH: That is so key in that business.
DH: But I learned from two people. I learned how to be nice and how to be a Goniff. I learned a lot.
CH: My short history. I didn’t ever run a produce business, but it was run by Italians.
DH: The Italians or the Jews.
CH: And they knew…they were also in the liquor business. My neighbor, Lewis, we called him Luig, because in Italian that means Lewis. And he owned a few liquor stores and a produce place. He got me a job in high school and they knew how to buy and I learned a lot from that.
DH: The Italians and the Jews were in the business.
CH: Its all about business, when to buy and how to buy.
DH: That’s right.
CH: And how to make a profit. That’s what you are here for right.
DH: And they are still in the business too.
CH: Yeah…so. Unfortunately, both Lewis and wife Clara have passed on in the last couple of years. They were in their late 90’s or mid-90’s. Good people, five kids. Just good honest family.
DH: I remember a New Yorker…I said I was in the produce business. He says how do you make a living. I said, well I scratch a living out.
CH: LAUGHTER
DH: I said I scratch out a living.
CH: How do you make a living on watermelons, but you did it. Watermelons and Christmas trees.
DH: Certainly watermelons…you sell 700 to 800 loads of watermelons in three or four months, that is a lot of watermelons. I had all the chain stores. Especially on the 4th of July. I had to give them prices two weeks in advance because I had a buyer in the country there. I gave them prices for the 4th of July, 10 days or two weeks to advertise and I came out smelling like a rose. I always came out smelling like a rose. I didn’t lose no money at all.
CH: That is an art, or a gift I should say to know how to do that.
DH: Right now, we got Florida or Georgia watermelons. I wouldn’t even buy that. They look great, but to me the best watermelons are from Mexico and Texas. Texas…I used to sell a lot of Texas watermelons and I did very good. I had a good shipper in Texas, high class.
CH: Good stuff, good product delivered.
DH: Right. I was the first one to bring seedless watermelons into Michigan.
CH: Aah…
DH: It took me almost 10 days or two weeks to do it. I had farmer Jack buying because the buyer and I were like this here. We put them in the stores and they started to move. Then the fruit market came in…there is a lot of fruit markets in Detroit. A lot of fruit markets.
CH: Yeah?
DH: Oh yeah. And they are all doing good, they are all making money.
CH: Did you sell across the country David? Or did you focus in…?
DH: Mostly in Michigan.
CH: And Chicago a little bit?
DH: The watermelons were all in Michigan.
CH: So were you a waitress or manager?
AH: I was the manager. In fact the person that owned the Raliegh House was Sam Lieberman.
DH: He sold to General Motors and Chrysler and he catered, he was big. He was sharp and he knew how to do it.
AH: Yeah, I worked there for a lot of years. My closest friend, his name was Bronco Lucas.
DH: He was with the mafia.
CH: Good memories.
AH: In fact, the guy who owned the building was Sammy Lieberman and so he came and got a pastrami sandwich on white bread, and I took it away from him and I put it on rye bread naturally and I gave it to Jimmy Hoffa.
CH: Oh my gosh, with a pastrami sandwich.
DH: I’ll never forget, when I came out of the Army, I was on the watermelon track and Jack Toko was trying to hit me. I said you son of a bitch you. He came up to me and said what are you saying. I said I called you that. Him and I went blow and blow. Now he was the nephew of the godfather in Detroit. When the godfather found out he chewed his ass out. He said don’t you ever do that again. I’m not looking for now trouble or nothing and he chewed out his nephew.
CH: Really?
DH: He really chewed him out. Him and I went boom. I mean I didn’t give a damn I was fighting with him. But after that, we don’t talk to each other. But his uncle chewed his ass out. They don’t want no publicity or nothing.
CH: Yeah…
DH: But the nephew of one of the godfather’s him and I were like this…I went to his house for dinner and everything. We were supposed to go to Sicily together. Imagine if we went to Sicily, I would have been like this here. I mean I would have had another father, introduce him to the priest.
CH: Yeah, that is hilarious.
DH: I got along with him very well.
CH: Is there any last memories? You shared a lot with me David, I really appreciate it.
DH: I got a good memory.
CH: Yeah, any other things you want to share about your service?
DH: Well, it’s a funny thing, on her 50th birthday I took her on a cruise to New Zealand and Australia. And we was in New Zealand on a bus and all of the sudden on sitting next to a guy and we was talking. He said you look familiar. He was my old Army Captain in Iceland.
CH: No way.
DH: And we got on the ship there and we got drunk…I was never so drunk in my life. We were drinking beer and drinking whiskey. We had costumes and parties. And in New Zealand they have the spears for the natives…you know what our spear was, a plunger. I’ll never forget it. I was stoned.
CH: What are the chances of that happening? That is amazing.
DH: And he lived in Oklahoma. He was in the lumber business and we go to this restaurant and we are having a lunch there in New Zealand and they gave us blueberries. Now I know blueberries because I was in the produce business. A woman comes up to me and says here take these blueberries and gives me a bag of blueberries. Not too many people have that.
CH: No I’m just looking here. Do you carry your discharge papers with you David? In your wallet?
DH: Yeah.
CH: And it says to have a magnifying glass to read the discharge paper and it says discharged February 4, 1946.
DH: Yeah, just before my birthday.
CH: Yeah, February 8th.
DH: I was in Fort Sherman, Illinois.
CH: And you were a Private First Class.
DH: Yeah, PFC.
CH: PFC and it gives all that information. Its fascinating, I’ve never seen one of these. This is quite a treasure. There is dates here…December 23, 1943 was that the time you went in David?
DH: December of ’43. I was in Iceland then.
CH: So that must be…oh that does say Iceland till January of ’44.
DH: No, I was there for a year and a half.
CH: Then in the US you…
DH: I think I arrived in the US in September of 1946.
CH: It says 1945…but you came in before that. You were in for three years we figured, right? Let me look at this…and get my cheaters. Now I can read it better. August ’45. But Iceland was ’43 to January ’44 and then August 26 of 1945…September of 1945, then you were here in the US about six months before you were discharged.
DH: Let’s see it was August, September, October, November, December, January…six months. I was two points shy of getting discharged when I came back home. I was supposed to have four bars and I only had three. I was just two or three months shy of getting discharged. Then they sent me to that camp in Georgia. Don’t ask me…I don’t remember a thing from that camp. The only thing I remember is getting drunk.
CH: And that was back here in Chattanooga, Tennessee?
DH: About 30 miles from Chattanooga, Tennessee.
CH: So you have the American Theater ribbon, the European/African/Middle Eastern Theater ribbon, three overseas service bars, good conduct medal.
DH: Thank you.
CH: It’s right here David, on the card. Well, I thank you for your service David. Really, this is an honor to have your time.
DH: Sometimes I feel ashamed of myself, because I didn’t see no action at all.
CH: You served your country.
DH: Yeah, that’s where they put me at.
CH: You had no choice.
DH: I had no choice. They say you go to the toilet here, that’s where you are going to go.
CH: Well, this is quite an honor. I have never seen one of these.
DH: You will never see one of those again. Not one like that.
CH: Not the wallet size.
DH: As soon as I got discharged, I had it in my wallet and I kept it in my wallet all the time. I never left it out.
CH: Your service to your country was very important to you.
DH: Oh yeah, I’ve got no complaints. The only thing is, I’ll be honest with you. I feel sorry for this generation right now. Because when I lived, I lived in a good generation as far as I’m concerned. You know in the 30’s and the 40’s and you could walk the streets, you don’t have to worry about a thing. Now I see my grandkids, a guy was killed in a drug store right in a drug store he was killed. I mean every day there is a killing and you know something, some of these killers get caught and they get released. This is what gets me. I believe in the old days. Hang ‘em. If you do that, I guarantee there would be less killing. But you’ve got these liberals, I don’t know if you are liberal or this or that…that’s your business. But I’m a firm believer in the old days. You kill somebody, you die. You don’t go to prison for 15, 20 or 30 years. (PHONE RINGS)
CH: Should we pause?
AH: Some advertising for a vehicle.
CH: I get those all the time.
DH: I miss driving.
AH: It’s hard to be without a car, so confined.
CH: Yeah, I bet.
DH: I miss driving.
CH: Has it been a few years now?
DH: You know if had one ticket since I’ve been driving at 18 years old for speeding. I had cancer and I beat cancer and coming home from cancer from the hospital, the speed limit was 30 or 35 and I was going 45 miles an hour. I just had a treatment and that was it. In Florida, the driving in Florida is terrible. Oh, I’m telling you. Everybody is in a hurry to go. So you know what I tell her, they are in a hurry to go to the cemetery. I mean it. The speed limit is 35 I go 35 miles an hour. Maybe 38. When the light changes, I wait until the traffic clears and then I go. Soon as the light changes people go, I wait until it is clear on both sides. Then I go. I’m in no hurry. Where am I going to go. So it may take me another 10 minutes to go, big deal. I’m in no rush. At my age, where am I going. I’m in no hurry.
CH: Sure…so the move to Duluth has been good for you overall.
DH: Well, I don’t know Duluth that well. I have been here for three years. I mean I have a few people here. Our kids live here. That’s why we came here. I had a friend, I met him in Florida. And he was a dentist here and he married a girl, a nurse. He was a sculptor in Florida and he showed me how to do some sculpting. He gave me a rock…I made that.
CH: You made that. That’s really cool David. How did you do this?
DH: Don’t ask me how I did it. All I did…I looked at a picture of her and I copied…it took me about two months to do that. I took my sweet time and I shaved and filed it with different files and sandpaper and everything. You know something, if somebody game me $1,000 or $10,000 I wouldn’t sell it.
CH: Sure, no that’s priceless.
DH: Now, I told Gary I would give it to him. I made it really soft, the way I sanded it then I drilled a hole in there.
CH: It looks like a face almost.
DH: I thought it was beautiful.
CH: Yeah, it is beautiful, its just gorgeous.
DH: We lived in Bonaventure for a few months and that’s where he lived.
CH: It’s lunch time, so let me wrap this up then. We’ll finish there and I thank you for your time David.
End of recording
Track 1
1:22:30
Transcribed by Heidi Guenther
