James Lee Graden

(Disclaimer: To the best of our knowledge, the information provided in this oral history interview is accurate. We do not make any representation or warranty as to the accuracy or completeness of the information.)

Oral Interview with James Graden
Conducted by Dan Hartman, Veterans’ Memorial Hall Program, St. Louis County Historical Society
Recording Date: August 22, 2010
Recording Place: Board Room, St. Louis County Heritage & Arts Center, Duluth, Minnesota
Transcriber: Susan Schwanekamp, St. Louis County Historical Society
Transcription process funded by a grant from the Lloyd K. Johnson Foundation

DH: Today we will be conducting an oral interview. My name is Dan Hartman and I’ll be the one doing the interview itself. Just for the record, can you state your full name, including your middle name and spell out your last name?

JG: James L. Graden. G-R-A-D-E-N.
DH: And what is the L. in your middle….?

JG: Lee. L-E-E.
DH: And what year were you born?

JG: January 7, 1942.
DH: And what branch of the military did you serve in?

JG: U.S. Navy.
DH: And what year did you first sign up for the Navy?
JG: January 21, 1960.
DH: OK.
JG: And in what year did your service end? What year was the last time you were in the military?

DH: The last time?

JG: Yeah.
JG: November 5, 1976.
DH: So now we’ll begin the actual formal part of the interview.
DH: So you were born in 1942. Where were you born at?

JG: Two Harbors.
DH: OK. And did you go all through high school there? Did you stay there the whole time?

JG: Yeah.
DH: OK. And what were your parents’ names?

JG: Kenneth and Bertha Parent Graden.
DH: And did they live in Two Harbors, as well, or did they come from somewhere else?

JG: My father was a tank driver in Sherman tank during WWII in Leipzig, Germany.
DH: So military service is something that comes in your family, then.
JG: Yeah.
DH: But your parents, did they move in Two Harbors or did they grow up in Two Harbors?

JG: Yeah. Two Harbors.
DH: And were their parents from Two Harbors originally, as well, or…?

JG: I think my grandpa on my father’s side was from Sweden. And on my mother’s side, my grandma was from Belgium.
DH: OK. There’s a question that I ask, and if you can’t answer, don’t worry about it. And so, when you were growing up as a kid, your parents, did they have any job, or what occupations did they have?

JG: My mother didn’t. My father worked for the railroad. And eventually he went to Proctor. He was a _____clerk, like a storekeeper (?).
DH: OK. Do you know what railroad he worked for?

JG: DM & IR.
DH: And did you ever go and help him sometimes at work, or did you see where he worked, or….?

JG: No.
DH: And your mother, she stayed at home? I imagine it was kind of nice to have your Mom around when you were growing up.
JG: Very much so.
DH: And how was Two Harbors growing up as a kid? Was it kind of a fun place to live, or….?
JG: I can’t remember that far back! Certain things I can (or can’t?) remember.
DH: Were there any games that you played as a kid that you enjoyed a lot, or….? Did you play hockey as a kid, or football, or baseball?

JG: Base baseball. Some guys found some place. But that was long ago. Long ago.
DH: And as you were growing up, WWII had pretty much ended by the time you probably remember, correct?

JG: Yeah.
DH: And how was it growing up in post WWII? Times were getting a lot better…do you remember that much at all?
JG: No.
DH: You were pretty young, so…..
JG: (Unintelligible response)

DH: Do you remember the Korean War at all, when that was going on?
JG: 1950? No, I was only 8 years old.
DH: OK. And so when you were growing up as a kid and eventually you turned into a teenager, do you remember that era pretty well, did you drive cars around? What were some of the things you guys did for fun? What were some of the things you did for fun as a teenager in Two Harbors?

JG: I grew up with my sisters. I had four sisters. One passed away last month. June 17th.
DH: What were your sisters’ names?

JG: The oldest is Kathy. Then Betty. She’s the one that passed away. 58 years old. And then Mary, and then Patty.
DH: OK. And so it sounds like you played with them a lot growing up, then?

JG: I was in the Navy when my youngest sister was born. 1961. And I can’t remember how old my sister Mary is. I used to have to call my mother: “How old is so and so?” _______(Inaudible section______

DH: And so when you were growing up in your teenage years, were you playing any sports in high school?
JG: No. I delivered papers. Not for very long. Two papers. And I can’t remember how long.
DH: And what did you do for fun during your teenage years in high school?

JG: Well, not much. I’m more energetic now.
DH: (Inaudible words from interviewer) a whole lot, so…..Obviously in 1960 was when you signed up for the military and what kind of led you to that decision? What made you interested in the Navy in general?
JG: Three of my classmates, about a couple weeks after high school, three of my classmates showed up and said that they were joining the Navy and wanted to know if I wanted to go. I says I might as well. I’m not doing nothing anyway. And I was gone for four years.
DH: And do you remember the classmates’ names?

JG: Yeah. Matter of fact, they went to the 50th class reunion on July 10th of this year. Two of them were there. John Evans, Danny Waxlax and Paul Larson (which wasn’t at the class reunion). I don’t know where he was.
DH: So you remember those three guys pretty good. Did you guys sign up together as a team, or…?

JG: Yeah.
DH: Where did you go to sign up at?

JG: Great Lakes. That’s boot camp. Great Lakes, Illinois.
DH: But you actually enlisted at Great Lakes….?

JG: Yeah.
DH: So you drove all the way to the Chicago area to sign up? You didn’t enlist in a recruiting office in Minneapolis or Duluth?

JG: I believe it was Minneapolis, because June 21st I got pneumonia.
DH: So you enlisted at a recruiting office in Minneapolis, then your special enlistment (?) was at the Great Lakes, then?

JG: Yeah.
DH: And so was there a particular reason that you were drawn to the Navy, or was it the other three guys or…?
JG: The other three.
DH: So you didn’t really have an inkling (he must mean “inclination”) in either direction?
JG: No.
DH: What did they say that got you excited, that made it seem better than what you were doing?
JG: Nothing, really. I didn’t ask….. I was a kid at that time – 18 years old. I didn’t know up from down. Well, I sort of did, but you know……You had to be a certain weight, for the physical. I was underweight, so somebody says “Eat bananas.” So I ate so many bananas they were coming out my ears and I passed my weight for the physical and I didn’t eat another banana for a year!
(Laughter)

DH: How many pounds did you have to increase by?

JG: 10, maybe. 10 or 15.
DH: OK. A lot of bananas. OK, so tell me a little bit about the process. So you’re at Great Lakes. You’ve enlisted, so what did you start doing? Did they put you right on the train right away, or did they send you back home, or?

JG: Yeah. Carrying this rifle and doing pushups and this and that and washing clothes. Always marching to and fro to the dining hall, or the mess hall. That’s about all I can think of.
DH: This was the first time you were kind of out of the Minnesota area?

JG: Yeah.
DH: And what did you think of that? Was it kind of fun to get out or….?
JG: Got pneumonia, sometime down there 1960. Mother and father come down, and my little sister, and helped me get through it. Had pneumonia. Got through it.
DH: That was pretty nice of them to all come down, though.
JG: Yeah.
DH: And while you were training there, did you have any time off to kind of enjoy the area at all or was it straight training?

JG: As I can recall, mainly training.
DH: Were there any fun stories that you remember, that you might want to talk about for the record?

JG: Not down at Great Lakes.
DH: And how long did you stay at Great Lakes?
JG: I had to stay an extra time, because I didn’t know how to swim, and they made you swim. But I went to, it had to be sometime in August 1960.
DH: And how did you like swimming?

JG: It was hard.
DH: How long did they make you do, I guess – how long a distance?

JG: hey make you go out on the bottom and come back up. He had a long pole, the instructor, so he was floppin’ and thrashin’ around. And then they make you swim on your back and swim underwater - in case you went to a ship, you could swim underwater. That’s why.
DH: Yeah. Thought so. And so where did you go from there? Did they send you back home or________(inaudible)___?
JG: (Pause for Graden to find “cheaters” – glasses while he tries to find something to show Hartman.)

DH: From boot camp I went to – I’m trying to remember the name of the ship – I don’t want to tear the pages apart.
JG: September 9, 1960 I went to the Naval Air Station at Pensacola, Florida.
DH: And what were you assigned to do there?

JG: Worked at small stores, with a civilian, to get sundries for the people what were in jail. We come once a week to give ‘em shaving cream, soap, that sort of thing. It was very intresting.
DH: And what was interesting about it?
JG: Well, some of them guys were from Minnesota. Whatever they did, I don’t know. The civilian, he was a nice fellow _______most of the guys____still living. Then kind of watch the clean -up guy in the supply building down there to make sure he didn’t make off with things, cleaning up. That was at nights.
DH: Was there anything that was kind of an exciting story that took place, or was it _____?

JG: No.
DH: OK. And how long were you doing that for, at the Air Station at Pensacola?
JG: Not too long. Transferred to the USS Moale DD 693, September 8, ’61. (He first looked through some papers to find this information.)
DH: o you were in Pensacola for a full year? And at this point, were you kind of excited to go away from Pensacola, or …?
JG: Well, when you get orders, you better go. Otherwise, you get the AWOL – absent without leave - and you have the shore patrol people to get after you, track you down.
DH: I mean, were you getting tired of the small stores thing?

JG: No. No.
DH: OK. Was Pensacola kind of a fun place to be at?

JG: Yeah. I’ve got pictures at home. I’m fishing in a boat down there – 18 years old, with a couple other guys from the Air Station. And I got to see one of the forts from way back when in the 1800s.
DH: You ever been ___ing?
JG: No.
DH: Any luck catching any fish?
JG: Can’t remember that, but somebody from northern Wisconsin took a flight called a hop, h-o-p, to New Orleans. Had a blast. Went on this riverboat, up the Mississippi about 30 miles, turned around and came back. I had a blast. One of the ______dance floor, you had to take your shoes off. There must have been about a hundred pairs of shoes on the floor. It’s lucky we did find our shoes. I can’t remember…on the way over there, it was a DC6, a prop job, we felt the plan was going to fall apart, so we took the bus back. But you had to be in uniform and have your ID with you, so we changed clothes when we got off there. Somewheres on there. I have pictures at home of me hanging on a lamp post on Bourbon St. and this other guy.
DH: Sounds like a pretty fun time.
JG: It was. It was.
DH: So I bet in some ways you were kind of sad to leave Pensacola. But when you get your orders, you have no….
JG: Yup.
DH: So now we’re going to start talking about the new ship that you’ve been stationed to. Where did you have to go to board?

JG: It was in Newport, Rhode Island. I had to go to Charleston, SC, first, because you had to fly on a (sounds like “tool” or “tube”), which is fleet rehabilitation and maintenance, taking certain items off the ship and redoing part of it. And then went up to the home port, which is Newport, Rhode Island.
DH: Home port of the USS Moale.
JG: Yeah. And it’s Moale, not Mole.
DH: And do you pronounce it “mo lee” or just “mole”?

JG: Just mole.
JG: That’s good to know. And so how long did you guys stay at the home port? Or did you guys sail right away?

JG: No. I have a cruise book at home from 1962 that I bought in 1963 for a Mediterranean cruise.
DH: OK. I guess let’s talk about that. What was your assignment on the ship, the USS Moale?

JG: At first it was a deck hand, meaning chipping, scraping, painting. And I worked into supply as a storekeeper, which, um… order parts, people coming down to the store, where I worked with two other guys. Back end of the ship, down below. And they had parts, and you had to give that to them and they had to fill out a form for what they wanted, and if we didn’t have it, we’d have to send away for it.
DH: And do you remember any of the other shopkeepers’ names, by chance?

JG: Frank Stansell, from Kansas, was one of them. I can’t remember the other guy.
DH: Did you hang out with Frank quite a bit?

JG: No.
DH: Were there certain people on the ship that you hung out with quite regularly, or…?
JG: That part I can’t remember.
DH: And how big a ship was it?

JG: A destroyer is 232 people, from the captain all the way down to the lowest seaman.
DH: And did you get to know almost all of them on ship, on board, or….?
JG: Most.
DH: And there were no couple of people that you ended up chumming with a lot, then?

JG: No.
DH: And about the ship. Was there anything special about it that you remember a lot, or…?
JG: No.
DH: I imagine as a deck hand you slept pretty good.
JG: I went into supplies. My quarter station was on a _____(something sounding like “merry-go-round”)___it was under the first gun mount – it was 5” gun mounts. And ________a destroyer, the top row is for 5” shells, the bottom row is for 5” powder cans. And me and another ship mate would put ‘em in the hoist to go up to the gun mount.
DH: OK. And you did that a lot in supplies.
JG: General quarters.
DH: And where in the ship was this, if you had to describe it?
JG: Fore, up forward. Cause there was 3 twin 5” gun mounts on that one.
DH: And was this an enjoyable thing for you or was there a lot of standing around time, kind of boring, or…?

JG: It was all right.
DH: OK. And was there a lot of down time, in general, on the ship?

JG: We were busy from 8 ‘til probably 7.
DH: So you always had something to do.
JG: Yeah.
DH: And you say you were cruising the Mediterranean, correct?

JG: Yeah.
DH: And you had originally to cross the Atlantic to get over there, correct?

JG: Right.
DH: And how was that journey?
JG: Rough, man. Rough. Well, we were chasing a submarine, having target practice, at a plane pulling a target up there. It took us about two weeks to get across.
DH: You said you were chasing submarines. Who were you chasing?

JG: US Navy submarines.
DH: So this is the first time, I would imagine, that you were out on the ocean, correct?
JG: Yeah.
DH: Is the first time you ever went through rough seas, or…?

JG: No.
DH: How did you do that first time?

JG: Not very good.
DH: I imagine that was fairly common, though, for most of the crew.
JG: Yeah. Some of those people who went out to channel (??) got seasick. Now if a sailor tells you he’s never been seasick, he’s full of baloney.
DH: Yeah. I’ve heard that several times. How many people on board would you say generally got sick at some point?
JG: Oh, it would vary, because some people would hide it. The first cross, they got their own area where they stayed, so it’s pretty hard to know that part, yeah.
DH: And what was the part that was the worst? Was it the storms, or…..?

JG: Yep.
DH: Were there any particular storms that you remember well, or…?

JG: Nope.
DH: OK. And so you crossed the Atlantic, and now you’re in the Mediterranean. How was the Mediterranean? Was it beautiful, like people have told me about, or…?

JG: In places. Italy, Naples, Italy, the buildings were pockmarked from WWII shells. It was probably the filthiest city at the time, over there. France was nice.
DH: And these were cities that you actually stopped at, not just driving by?
JG: And Gibraltor, Spain, France, Italy, Greece, Turkey. We went ashore, after…..overseas, we were in three sections. That means after the work day, you could go into town, unless we (would) anchor out, and then you had to get into a whale (?) boat, because the pier wasn’t deep enough…you always didn’t dock to a pier. They had to anchor out at times.
DH: Of all the places you went to, did you have a favorite city?

JG: Bordeaux, France. It was really nice.
DH: And why was it nice? What was so…?
JG: The ladies.
(Laughter)
JG: Yes. Seen a Turkish belly dancer while I was over there, of course.
DH: So that was a part of…you’d come off the boat and you’d go out with a bunch of guys at once, I would imagine?

JG: eah. In them days, you had to wear your uniform going into town.
DH: And was that a good thing for you?

JG: I don’t really think about it that much.
DH: OK. So when you would pick up the ladies, where would you pick them up at?

JG: Usually a bar.
DH: Were there certain bars you remember real well, or…?
JG: No.
DH: But it sounds like you did all right in Bordeaux, France.
JG: Yeah.
DH: Any certain stories you want to talk about over there? Or you can talk about, or…?

JG: I can’t remember where we were. We were out for three shifts. This one guy, he was due to get out shortly, because he took the (sounds like “feeling”) line and he would throw it to the next ship so the outer end was supposed to be tied on to a mooring line and then people can pull it to their ship so they can get tied up. He didn’t tie the other end off. The “heeling”(? Or “wheeling”?) lines were about 50 feet… he just let it go (makes sound)…sailing. Captain was really wild (or “wired”?), because he was ready to get out this guy – this kid, at the time.
DH: And so what was the consequence?
JG: He probably didn’t get to go ashore no more. For discipline.
DH: And I imagine going to shore was one of the things you guys were excited to do.
JG: Yeah. Overseas, you’re in three sections. That means after the work day is done with, a third of the crew has to stay aboard ship for security. The other two sections can go into town, if you wanted to.
DH: OK. But were there any stories of you guys going into these towns where you had a little adventure, that got a little too hairy one time, or…?

JG: No.
DH: And when you were out on the ship itself, sailing through the Mediterranean, were you doing a lot of training exercises, were you practicing (with) the guns a lot?

JG: Yeah. General quarters (?), shooting at the aircraft ______target. Chasing US submarines, ASW it’s called – anti-submarine warfare.

DH: How often would you do this?

JG: Once a week.
DH: Oh. And what was your mission in the Mediterranean? Was it a peacekeeping mission, or ….?

JG: At the time, yeah.
DH: I imagine it was a part of the Cold War - ?

JG: Yeah. Um, let’s see, here…I can’t recall. Oh yeah, the fleet. It has to do with an aircraft carrier, a couple of cruisers, destroyers, ______Cuba. Well, the only place to go out on Cuba was Guantanamo Naval Base, and we were down at the base one weekend, way back when. I believe it was September of ’61. And then we went over and would meet the ships that were coming back from the Mediterranean.
DH: Hmm. OK. And (from) earlier, you sailed in the Mediterranean from ’62 to ’63?
JG: Um, I’m trying to think, when we were over there. Come back in March of ’63, six months previous (to) March of ’63.
DH: So was there anything that occurred in your Mediterranean career that you want to talk about right now?

JG: No.
DH: OK. And so, where did you go when you came back?

JG: We came back and we were aboard ship when President Kennedy got assassinated. November 22 of 1963. Couldn’t believe it.
DH: What were you and your friends doing at that time? What were your …..thoughts about that? Were you shocked, or…?

JG: Very much so. Shocked and I couldn’t believe it and, um, we went to other ports, on the East Coast.
DH: Going back to the President Kennedy thing. What did you feel for President Kennedy? Did you think he was doing a good job?

JG: Very good.
DH: So you came back and you went to a couple ports….
JG: On the East Coast.
DH: And what was the ship’s role on the East Coast? Just to cruise…?

JG: Cruise. Show your military prominence (last word supplied by Hartman).
DH: So you there kind of on a peacekeeping mission?

JG: Yeah. And was discharged April 3, 1964, because anybody who would get out before the physical year ended that year would get out early.
DH: OK. And were you at this point kind of happy to be out, or…?
JG: Yes. Because I didn’t like the Navy at that time. At all!

(Laughter)

DH: And why didn’t you like the Navy – at that time?

JG: Well…
DH: Didn’t think it was your thing?

JG: Right. You got me.
DH: OK. But then you rejoined back up later. What year did you do this?

JG: 1974, November 28, 1974.
DH: I’ve got to ask…it’s been 10 years, now. What made you want to re-sign up?

JG: OK. I got some problems, and I needed a change and I got it.
DH: And that was in the Navy.
JG: Yeah.
DH: And where did you sign up at?

JG: Duluth, Minnesota.
DH: And did you join the active Navy or did you join the Reserve, or….?

JG: No, I re-enlisted to active.
DH: And where did they move you from there? Did you immediately go into service, or…?
JG: We didn’t have to go take a complete physical from Medical – just a general thing. Just a (inaudible)__. It’s in here somewhere. It’d better be. (Some muttering.) OK – here. Went to the USS Miller. It was a DE1091, when I come aboard November 28, 1974. But in January of 1975, they made the designation change to a FF, which is a fast frigate. Which was home ported in Norfolk, Virginia.
DH: So when you were originally sent in 1974, where was it out of, then?

JG: Norfolk.
DH: Norfolk. OK. And tell me a little bit about the USS Miller. How was it different from the USS Moale.
JG: On the forward part was an “az rock” (??) It was a rectangle – box like. It was anti-submarine rockets on that. It had a hangar for a helicopter. It had probably 10 airmen for the helicopter and us, the crew.

DH: And you didn’t have that on the Moale?
JG: No.
DH: OK. Was this ship more advanced than the Moale?
JG: Yeah. This ship was built some time in 1973, ____not a plank owner, meaning a person who goes aboard ship when it’s commissioned.
DH: OK. So and what were the duties that you were assigned to, I guess?

JG: OK. Coming aboard, I had to go in the deck division. Like everybody else that comes on board. And start over, when I was an E3 – a seaman. Scraping, painting, that sort of thing.
DH: And did you not enjoy that, or was it…?

JG: It was okay. Then you fill out this request form, to get in another division, which was supply, you had to go before this board, chiefs first class and so forth, and tell ‘em, tell these people why you want to get in supply. It’s like you have to sell yourself to these people. And they approved it.
DH: So were you happy to back in supply?

JG: Oh, very much so.
DH: So what were you doing in supply now? A very similar job, or…?

JG: Yeah. Issuing supplies. Ordering them or if we didn’t have ‘em, ordering them from Norfolk Naval Base. And straighten stores out. When stuff does come aboard where it was from when we were out at sea, from an aircraft carrier, or ashore, people bring us in their Jeep or what have you, or we could go ashore and get it. Which was very interesting.
DH: And did you have this role for the rest of, for the remainder of your time?

JG: Yeah. Right.
DH: And do you remember the people you worked with, now?

JG: Keith Parkinson. He lives in southwest Pennsylvania. And McFarland - African American guy. Young then. Course Keith Parkinson was E5, second-class storekeeper. Which was okay.
DH: And did you guys talk a lot about your home town, where you were from, or…?

JG: Not really. The Cold War veteran would say “I can’t wait to get out of here so I can go back and drive this or that type of car”, you know?

DH: And where did the ship mostly go? Did you stay mostly in your home port, or where did you guys go out and have any cruise, ___?
JG: Mediterranean. Again. And I can’t remember any of the ports, that time.
DH: Did you have a little more fun the first time versus the second time, or…?
JG: Probably the same.
DH: OK. Back to Bordeaux again, or…?

JG: Can’t recall.

DH: Yeah. And you’re a little bit older now, so….And is there, I mean, tell me a little bit about this cruising? What do you remember about it the most? Just kind of working in supplies or..??? What was the…?
JG: Yeah. And they’d come with a big helicopter off the aircraft carrier and there’d be an all hands working party. And it would put the stuff off to the side for supply, and when that was all time, you’d put a ____in the storeroom, which is in the back part of the ship. Sometimes there wouldn’t be an all hands working party, because we didn’t have much clothes and food, which would be for commissary people. But if it was parts, it’d be for us, the storekeepers.
DH: So that brings us to the great question: How was the food?

JG: Good. Real good.
DH: What did you eat? It wasn’t typical food. You told me that.
JG: SOS.
DH: And describe to me what that is.
Can I say it on camera?

DH: If you’re willing to be….it will be on you record.
Shit on a shingle.
DH: And what was that?

JG: Beef. Ground up beef with tomatoes, tomatoes mixture, on toast. Shingles is the toast. That was pretty good.
DH: You actually enjoyed it?

JG: Yeah.
DH: OK.
JG: And once a year we would get lobster.
DH: Wow. You guys were actually fed pretty well, at some times. And what kind of drinks were you guys allowed to have? Did you have a beer, or anything like that?

JG: No. Coffee, milk, I can’t remember if they had tea or not. But coffee and milk and it might have been pop.
DH: And how was the sleeping? Was it pretty easy to sleep on ship, or was it pretty tight quarters, or…?

JG: The first time, where did I sleep? In the back, back part of the ship. In an aluminum frame with a canvas laced to the frame. Three high. I was in the bottom, first time. The second time in I slept up forward and being a modern type of ship, it was a box you put your clothes in. You just lift it up and you put the mattresses on there. And we did have a narrow locker for civilian clothes, the second time.
DH: And was that nice to have, or….?

JG: Very nice. You could go to town with civilian clothes on. And one thing, overseas, there was one guy that ran our ship store – he’s from Oklahoma, I’ve got a picture of him, in this book here. He would never sell me cigarettes, so I had to have a couple of buddies, to get me cigarettes. When I left the ship, I would stick ‘em in my socks, to go barter with overseas cause it’s like gold. American cigarettes are gold overseas. And I got a real nice tapestry from Turkey, which I still have.
DH: Which you bartered for with cigarettes.
JG: Because I smoked cigars.
DH: What kind of cigars did you smoke?

JG: At the time, it was Coban, C-O-B-A-N, rum soaked. Um, yum yum yum.
DH: Sounds good. And what was the tapestry you have. Describe – was there a scene…?

JG: The mosques in Turkey. It’s probably 3’ x 6’ size. For a couple packs of cigarettes.
DH: Great deal. So on this last cruise, was there anything that I haven’t asked you yet that you want to talk about or….?
JG: (No audible response.)

DH: And you cruised from ’74 to ’76, correct?

JG: Yeah. I did go ashore. A couple of guys, one was from Michigan. The other guy was from somewhere in Texas. He was a little guy. And I was a store man in the back part of the ship and across the way was a commissary man and I told him at one time, I says “Yeah. The trouble with you is the civilians didn’t like you, that’s why you come back in.” That’s what I told the commissary guy.
DH: How did he take that?

JG: That was all right. And he told me, he said the reason he come back in here was to get on people’s cases. I said I cannot have it.
DH: So when you returned back to it in ’76, where did you stay, did you move on to another ship or….?

JG: No. I was discharged November 5, 1976, because they needed berthing spaces for engineering students from Norfolk Naval Base. (It was) myself and a few others that got discharged and some got transferred to other ships.
DH: And were you happy about it at this point?

JG: Sort of.
DH: OK. But you had come to enjoy the Navy a little more at this point, it sounds like, or…?

JG: Yeah. Way back. _____than the first time.
DH: So what was better about it the second time versus the first time?

JG: Oh, I don’t know. Well, I enjoyed where my general quarter station was the first time. The second time it was in back of the CIC, which is the combat information center. I learned how to write backwards. (??) Me and two other shipmates, we had our life jackets on for our general quarter station.
DH: So you were discharged in 1976 and that was your last service in the military, correct? OK. Is there any final statement that you want to make about your service?

JG: No.
DH: I want to thank you for coming and doing an oral interview, today.
JG: you’re welcome.
DH: Well I have a couple of final questions about these photos, but the oral interview part is done, so thank you.
(Note: Where are these pictures, that are being talked about?)
DH: OK, so this is a picture of you when you were about 18 or 19?

JG: About 19. I can’t remember. It doesn’t say nothing on the back.
DH: OK. Is there anything you want to tell me about these pictures?

JG: Well, the first week in May, 2009, was our first reunion of the Navy ship I was on the second time.
DH: OK.
JG: These are pictures…this is myself. This is Thomas McDade from Monroe, CT. He was in the Navy before me on a destroyer, the USS Mullinex . This is our host, Michael Power. Over in Tiffin, Ohio. And that’s ….we stayed at Michael Houck’s place – seven of us, couple miles outside of Tiffin, Ohio. That’s him over there – Tiffin, Ohio. This is the guy who called me up and gave me a vehicle (??) of ’09 wanting to go to a reunion. I said “Who is this?” He said “This is Jeff Grimm.” He lives in Cottage Grove, Minnesota. He was one of our cooks. And that’s a guy from Connecticut. This guy here is from Boston, he was a machinist. This was our drummer from Cleveland, Ohio. This was the park where we stayed at. McDade, Jeff Grimm, he was one of our cooks. Aboard ship. That’s the second time that was a band. This is the gang that was there. Out of a crew of 230, 35 shipmates showed up, and they’re having another one three years from this year. So I’ll be going to that one, hopefully. This is our host, Michael Houck. He was a machinist. He’s 56 years old this time. And I was praying lightly to myself I hope I’m not the oldest of the people there at the reunion. I’m not. I’m the third oldest. This guy here was 70. Last year. Talking to a couple of ‘em, sitting on a tail gate talking to a couple of ship mates, wise, (??) having a good time.
DH: So these are mostly reunion photos, then, correct?

JG: Right. Yeah. Here’s some more. Here’s McDade, the store keeper. He worked in the supply office on the main deck. I didn’t. I worked in the after (related to “aft”?) store room. And that’s the band and that’s the vet’s post where we were at. And this guy here, he’s the personnel man aboard ship. He lives in Maine. This guy here…
DH: And is this a map of your cruise?

JG: Yeah. Which was kind of, you know…. And this guy here, he’s from Charleston, South Carolina. He was a machinist, and I can’t think of his last name right now. It’s probably in the back. And that’s where we stayed at Michael Houk’s place in Tiffin, Ohio. Someplace…McDade, the store keeper and I went to town and took pictures downtown Tiffin, Ohio. There’s one right there. And thank goodness for takin’ pictures. I took pictures of license plates, because I probably won’t see them again, ever. And the personnel man is Jim Paige, he’s from Woodingham, Maine. He sent me that. He took a picture of the Sears Tower in Chicago. It did come out good. And (muttering)…here’s me, here’s myself sitting down in the fore compartment by the lockers, I’m an E4 third class store keeper. This guy here – Thompson – he ran the ship store, and myself. And these guys are here, in town?

DH: Where at? Overseas? And this is obviously in the supply room?

JG: This is in the after store, where I worked. The guy over here is one of our cooks, from Newbrun, NC. These other three shipmates are in town someplace overseas. I cannot remember where. Here are the two deckhands, aboard ship, outside. And this is what you call “vertical replenishment”. By this helicopter taking stores from an aircraft carrier and bringing ‘em aboard.
DH: How often did that happen?

JG: Maybe once a month.
DH: And what’s this photo from, then? Is that from the USS Moale, or…?
DH: I can’t remember on that one. I guess that’s it.
DH: OK.

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